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Post by mscherer on Dec 5, 2010 8:02:20 GMT -5
Pour yourselves a hot cup of coffee, tea, hot chocolate or a hot toddy -- settle into your favorite chair, slip on your reading glasses and get ready to read the latest POW. The logline: A depressive seeks a fresh start at life by undergoing a surgical procedure to look like a famous TV personality only to find himself ensnarled in the man's sordid personal life. Also, need a script for next week, so if any of you brave souls are ready to release one of your babes into the dark, menacing woods of the script critique , feel free to send it to me at: mscherer0@gmail.com. Keep Reading and Writing! Attachments:
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Post by mydoggeorge on Dec 5, 2010 12:28:57 GMT -5
Just curious if there is a logline? Thanks.
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Post by waltkurtz on Dec 5, 2010 19:23:13 GMT -5
Hi Gitsters,
I thought I provided a logline, but maybe not.
Here it goes: A depressed man seeking a fresh start in life undergoes a surgical procedure to look like a television celebrity only to find himself ensnarled in the man's sordid personal life.
The picture is sort of a cross between Double Indemnity and The Tenant (without the supernatural element).
Walt
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oz
Full Member
Posts: 166
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Post by oz on Dec 7, 2010 2:23:36 GMT -5
Hi Walt. Read the pages and overall, liked the piece. Did line notes so I'll lay them out for you and then we'll 'talk' ; )
Pg4-5 Nice tone established early. Well done.
Pg 5 Give HUSBAND and WIFE names and WIFE's 3rd line of dialogue she's identified as WOMAN
PG 37 UNCTUOUS made me stop reading. I'm an old English major. I know a few words but you have the all-time highest count of what I refer to as the Scrabble Word Alert words in a script I've ever seen. (okay, maybe just in a while) Need to keep it simple to tell the story. In my opinion, if you want to show off your word knowledge, write a novel. When the Scrabble words show up in scripts, they look out of place and make the reader stop reading and that's the last thing you want to happen.
Pg 40 Gotta admit, I'm getting bored.
Pg 44 Should be Dale's lips (possessive) --- He, too, (need commas)
Pg 45 Another Scrabble word...rote...again, made me stop reading to ensure the context was correct or the inference or whatever. It's just the kiss of death, Walt!
Pg 47 I don't know why this stood out to me and then started bothering me but I guess you could call it a continuity problem with your formatting??? You have GRANT STANHOLM rather than just GRANT or STANHOLM for his dialogue AND you can never quite decide which to use throughout the script in the action lines when referring to him, Grant or Stanholm. Everyone else is rock solid but with him, you toss it back and forth throughout. And you know what? It may not even be worth mentioning except it bothered me for some reason so it could bother a reader who matters so I thought I'd mention it.
Pg 51 At Kitty's line---his personal specialty. I'd lose the 'personal'. Sounds awkward to me.
Pg 53 Pierre starting to sound like whomever he's talking to rather than himself. Example on this page, his line---sorry treating you so shabbily. Doesn't sound like him. Sorry he's treating you like shit. OR just so shabby. AGAIN on Pg 54 when he asks For what purpose? I don't think he'd say that. Just a simple 'Why?' sounds more like Pierre. Just be careful to keep them all sounding like themselves.
Pg 53 Kitty parries---Scrabble word alert again!
Pg 54 GREAT LINE at Kitty's ...longed to kiss that face when I didn't hate it.
Pg 55 I have NO CLUE why the scene with Porche rubbing her sore crotch is there and if it plays out later, I completely missed it.
Pg 57 Missed a word on the line...'getting lots OF pussy...' but not sure need that line anyway. Seems awkward when he asks it as does Dale's response. I'd cut those two lines.
Pg 59 At 'Pierre scrutinizes...' that whole line (2?) needs a rewrite. Does Pierre sense Grant's unease? It's confusing as written.
Pg 60 Baronial---Scrabble word alert again. How about .. 'It reeks of old money in size and design.'
Pg 63 We're on page 63, Walt, and I gotta tell ya, there's NO RISING TENSION!!! That's a problem. You need to interject here (really, earlier) before you lose everyone. --- I DO NOT understand this---Rigoberto gives Porche herpes but SHE'S afraid he won't want to see her again? You definitely need to spell that out better because I'm not getting it. Why isn't she ready to kill the SOB? Okay, she's insecure, needs a man, but if she's so insecure that getting herpes doesn't make her want to kill him, and that's twisted, then she's gonna be thinking she's got him for life along with the disease, not that he's not going to want to see her again. Maybe it's just me, but I really disconnected there.
Pg 64 Askance---Scrabble word alert
Pg 67 Gambols--Scrabble word alert
Pg 110 Need to reword or add punctuation---People are gathered inside, THEY comfort.... --- We love to get OUR stories....
Pg 117 I'd change the line about Grant heading to the parking lot----maybe heads for the door to leave for the day, makes his escape toward the door, something. When someone's reading, they don't pay close attention to your scene headings so when I read your line I got very confused --- and stopped reading --- when I read Porche rose from the couch. Couldn't figure out why there was a couch in the parking lot! ; )
Okay, so overall, it was a good story. I noticed when you got to the excitement at the end, you quit using all your Scrabble words which tells me you don't need to use them at all. Tell the story in simple words so the reader stays with you.
Couple of weak areas: I'd suggest pulling Pasho in to raise the tension back in the 2nd act. Show him in a dastardly deed or two that makes us worry for Dale and Pierre more than we do because even when he gets Pierre on tape with the big confession, it was kind of a let down after the opening with the caskets and all. Make him meaner, badder, scarier (doesn't even need to happen to main characters) because he needs to bring more tension where you need it most; a fly in the ointment.
Also, I'd actually put Pierre in a hotel room with the young girl; hand to the fire. What will he do when she climbs all over him? You're not bringing your characters all the way to the edge to see what they will do in the worst case and that's what keeps the reader/audience on the edge of their seat rooting for their victory or demise. By the time the script ended, I didn't care one way or another about any of them because you didn't take me far enough. You never told me what Pierre was fighting to forget or get past. You never showed me how ugly he could be or how good he could be so I just didn't care and I wanted to. Same with Kitty. I don't even really know if she's a good mother! That's important because if you can't even establish that, get rid of the kid and Dora because you don't need them. Giving up that there may be some impropriety with the foundation just isn't good enough. Pages and pages earlier we needed to have a reason to not trust her so that when we found out about her accident it pulled us back in to care.
**Modified*** Okay, I "get" what Pierre's ugly secret is but it is SO subtle (as proven by my line above not understanding Porche's crotch problem) that you risk another reader not getting it until they, too, are battling insomnia and have nothing else to think about! NOT GOOD! Perhaps he speaks of it a little more--still clandestinely--but how he's filled with shame or how they've fought it for so long or how it's ruining her or SOMETHING or add more to the scenes because it just wasn't apparent --- TO ME. And maybe it's just me. I'll give you that. Okay, another try at sleep. Modification over ***
You've got a great chance with this because the bones are there. When you rewrite, put the heartstrings in and pull us in every direction so we hate Pierre for being a bum at the start then root for him for wanting a change then despise him for whatever his secret is then root for him for wanting to be Grant for love. Same with all of them. Push and pull us to keep with the whole theme and you'll have a hit on your hands.
In my humble opinion ; ) Good luck to you, Walt. And thanks for sharing.
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Post by waltkurtz on Dec 7, 2010 18:06:01 GMT -5
Oz,
Thank you for well considered comments.
The big take away for me is that you feel it drags a little in the front end of the second act and that you felt the intimate past shared by Pierre and Porche was presented with too much subtly. Is that correct?
Regarding the subtly, I wanted to present their relationship in such a way that their interactions would seem like reasonable, if odd, brother/sister exchanges, but, when he kisses her, we realize instantly the subtext of their relationship. That being that they were lovers and he's still in love with her and can't have her because, well, it's just wrong. In this way, I was hoping to evoke something reminiscent of The Grifters with its mother/son relationship.
Also, I was wondering how the ambiguity of whether it was Grant or Pierre who survived at the end worked for you? Did you have an opinion about which one of them survived?
You're comment that the picture didn't go far enough in its emotional stakes is surprising to me because I feel like Pierre is a desperate man - that is his essence - and this is a quality that shown through for me on my last reading of it. Maybe I'm too close to the material.
As for Kitty being a good mommy... I think any woman as concerned with her vanity as Kitty is - up to and including hatching a plan to kill her husband and frame another man for it because it will look better than divorce - not a great person. That said, she loves her child. Maybe that dichotomy was confusing? I find her mix of haughty self opinion and deep insecurity very relatable. But maybe it's not coming off the way I intended.
I would love to know your thoughts about these questions.
I've taken your suggestion about being consistent with Stanholm's name as it appears throughout the script and am going back over the script for word selections that are more quotidian (lol).
Thanks again for your time and thoughtful commentary.
Walt
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oz
Full Member
Posts: 166
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Post by oz on Dec 7, 2010 20:17:51 GMT -5
Hello, again, Walt. You're very welcome and thank you for a good read.
Yes, I thought it dragged too much. As I indicated, my biggest problem was the lack of rising tension. Your opening caught my attention. The intro to Porche and Pierre showed me their ordinary world and a hint at who they were and what they battled--just enough without giving it all away. But at the front end of act two, you should have me going in every direction, feeling confused about these people so I am shocked at the end. You didn't, so I wasn't.
The intimate past was WAY too subtle and when they kissed, I actually wondered if it had something to do with her insanity regarding her outburst about the herpes. You can paint that clearer without giving it away but as it is, you don't give enough for me to gasp at the revelation. Again, it may just be me but I think the story's good enough that you don't want to risk a reader who matters having that same problem. Yes, their interactions seemed odd but they were odd from the beginning and without him really showing torment over his big secret---especially when Pasho claimed to have the goods on him with his admission (which Pierre just doesn't seem to care about!!!) --it just didn't add up to incest! At some point, it has to hit me over the head and for some reason, the kiss didn't do it for me. I'm not saying tone down the odd behavior, but you've got to figure out how to give me the grand reveal better, with more impact so I actually gasp. Perhaps Porche says something before the guy interrupts them---"We agreed not to; it's not right." That tells us it's happened in the past. As it is, it just seems impulsive on Pierre's part because we know he's so insecure and an oddball and she's the only person he's close to.
Re: the ambiguity of Grant vs Pierre at the end, I think you did a great job there although I wonder if him asking "who's Marty" gives it away too easily. I almost put in my notes to cut that line but I wasn't sure myself. You may want to rethink that, though.
Personally, Pierre seems one-note. Never quite desperate enough for the action he took. Yes, he underwent the surgery, but I don't feel his desperation so much as his calculation. I think the biggest problem I had was his lack of anger. Anger is pain and disappointment expressed. Pierre is walking pain and disappointment so why doesn't he express anger more? He seemed calm and calculating rather than desperate to me and perhaps that's where the disconnect was.
The same holds true for Kitty. Any woman concerned with vanity like Kitty---social vanity--is going to at least paint the picture of perfection from top to bottom. She even talks about it. Yet we see the kid at the beginning and at the end. My point is, if you're not going to really use that to your advantage, make her childless because of her vanity---body vanity that was wasted because of the accident---because the child and nanny parts are throwaways. They don't add anything to the story and losing them would lose nothing.
All in all, it's a great story and I think if you work out these few issues, you've got a very marketable commodity on your hands. The psychology of it has to work, though, because you're dealing with a bunch of nutballs. Nutballs are fabulous but you have to make certain they connect from start to finish or it doesn't work.
Get to work, my friend! This will be worth it ; )
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Post by waltkurtz on Dec 7, 2010 21:12:18 GMT -5
Oz,
Great suggestion about Marty. I got rid of the "who's" and it skirts the line much better.
As for Pierre being desperate. Was it or was it not clear in the beginning that he's borderline suicidal? By this I'm referring to the choker which he hangs from in his closet and his momentary flirtation with walking into oncoming traffic? I also wonder if he didn't seem angry coming out of the clinic and again at the gay bar where he gets his ass kicked?
Also, did you pick up on Kitty hatching her plan when Grant asks her in their bedroom whether or not she saw Pierre at the club and she denies it? I'm wondering if this could be another instance of too much subtly.
Walt
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oz
Full Member
Posts: 166
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Post by oz on Dec 7, 2010 21:49:48 GMT -5
Hey Walt.
Yeah, you lean toward suicidal but, for me, it seems more calculating than desperate which, again, I think is only because he's so calm most of the time. Take this for what it is; one person's opinion. And a late-night read at that. ; )
I did pick up that Kitty was up to something when she denied seeing Pierre and don't necessarily think it was to subtle but do think you need to flesh out her selfishness a bit.
You're close on this, Walt. Don't be discouraged. Get into the psyche of your nutballs and weave that story a little tighter. And let's hope a few more will read to get some fresh eyes on the pages so we can get other opinions to make sure I'm not off on my observations.
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Post by waltkurtz on Dec 8, 2010 2:03:36 GMT -5
Hi Oz,
Thanks for the clarification. It will be interesting to see what other people comment (if they comment) related to these issues.
Hope you get some sleep tonight.
Walt
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Post by dmedley on Dec 8, 2010 10:40:32 GMT -5
I've downloaded this, about half way through it. Thoughts coming shortly.
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Post by waltkurtz on Dec 8, 2010 15:33:46 GMT -5
Cool.
Walt
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Post by dmedley on Dec 9, 2010 4:16:27 GMT -5
Please keep in mind that everything that follows is simply my opinion.
I’m going to cut to the chase. My first advice concerning this script is as follows: Every use of CONTINUOUS, CONTINUED, CONTINUE, LATER, and SAME could be removed from the script and it would aid greatly in the reading of it.
Also, the script is full of redundancies. Examples: Page 8 description says Pierre sees a job for temporary receptionist. Then the dialog below, Pierre says, “Howdy, still looking for a temporary receptionist?” In the description I’d simply say—Pierre scrolls through more jobs. Finds one that piques his interest—The fact that it’s a temporary receptionist is made apparent in the dialog.
Page 15: You tell us that Porche is “sore” then you have her say, “Ouch!” No need to waste space telling us she’s sore. Her dialog says it all.
Page 30 your description goes— Baron is scared by the animal and makes it known. He SHRIEKS, let’s go of the horn and reaches for his father—The first sentence is unnecessary. “He SHRIEKS, lets go of the horn and reaches for his father” tells us he’s frightened by his action. Less space, much more effective.
Page 42: Why tell us that the card says Dale is a used car salesman and then have Pierre state it in dialog. Just have Dale hand him the card, Pierre looks at it, then says, “Used cars, huh?”
Twice you have Pierre walk in on Porche naked and both times you TELL us “she doesn’t seem to mind” when it’s obvious by her actions that she doesn’t. No need to tell us
There are many more such redundancies throughout the script. I suggest going through it carefully and removing all of them.
Now, on to things that cannot be put to film, ie telling rather than showing.
Page 2: You tell us that Porche is “still sweaty from her morning workout”. Unless you have a scene where she is working out, there is no way to actually know she has worked out. Since it can’t be filmed, it has no place in the description, thus it should be removed.
On the same page you talk about Pierre’s eyes that belie a “hollowed core; a soul grasping at life with clenched fists.” There’s no way that could be translated to film. Therefore, it is unnecessary. Get rid of it.
Same page: “Pierre shivers at the thought. Though brother and sister, they behave more like husband and wife.” On film, we may see Pierre shiver, but we’d have no clue why. You’re revealing exposition via telling rather than showing. Page 3: “Porche shivers with guilt.” On screen she shivers. We will have no idea why.
On page 69 you tell us that “Dale hears a familiar laugh”. It’s both unfilmable and redundant because just a few sentences further, via action and dialog, it becomes obvious that it’s familiar.
Page 74: “Lindsay is desperate to be taken seriously.” Unfilmable.
I mean, this script is full of useless unfilmables. Everything from telling us that Burke is the “four o’clock producer” to “It’s never occurred to Pierre this story was anything less than true” to “She recognizes the number as Pierre” to “Stanholm’s sincerity rubs Brisbane the wrong way” and on and on. Now, I've seen plenty of great screenplays that do stretch the "show don't tell" mantra very slightly when it comes to main character introductions. But even then, it's very subtle.
Also, go through and find overly wordy description like “Porche is resolute in her refusal to divulge” and change it to something like “Porche is silent”.
Now, I know it may seem like I’m being harsh, but trust me, there’s a reason for this. If you went through this script and removed every unnecessary redundancy, unfilmable, and wordy description, it would shave off several pages. That’s a good thing because then it would free up space in which you could really develop character in a truly meaningful way. For example, rather than telling us from the get-go that Porche and Pierre are kissing siblings, why not put in the effort to actually fool us? Present them as husband and wife or live in boyfriend/girlfriend whose relationship is on the rocks. Use the walk in naked scenes to help in that. Then surprise us with the fact that they are brother and sister. Think about it: We’re reading (watching) these two characters who obviously have some sort of romantic background then, wham! They’re brother and sister??? Holy shit!
It’s just a suggestion, but I think it’s obvious that you have it in you to make this script better. For example, the Kitty line where she says, “I’m sorry. Maybe I’ve longed for what it was like to kiss that face when I didn’t hate it” is great. Also, the scene where Pierre is forced to go on air; that was good. That actually had me squirming.
Overall I like the story idea. Like you said, it is a sort of cross between Double Indemnity and The Tenant, but also, it has a little Body Heat thrown in. It’s a good story in need of some serious thought and hard work. One more note: I noticed on page 112 that Kitty suddenly turned in to Porche. It kind of threw me.
Thanks for the opportunity to read your screenplay. Good luck.
Daniel
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Post by waltkurtz on Dec 9, 2010 15:29:35 GMT -5
dmedley,
I really appreciate your meticulous reading of the script. I've gone over it several times now and never caught the Porche/Kitty mistake on pg. 112.
I will take to heart your suggestions for trimming the length. I do believe the film is overwritten.
A couple of questions...
1) Your comments imply that you were keyed into Pierre and Porche's unholy relationship from the get go. Is that true?
2) Regarding your suggestion of using the reveal of their familial relationship as the big aha moment instead of the kiss; I was wondering how you think that may deepen their characters versus what's on the page. It's an intriguing suggestion, but as I mull it over it seems to be replacing one aha moment for another. Unless, of course, you really did think they were romantic from their first introduction, in which case I have to go and back and take a look at that. I had always feared being too obvious and maybe I was.
Thanks again for spending precious time with this.
Best regards,
Walt
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Post by waltkurtz on Dec 9, 2010 16:25:06 GMT -5
dmedley,
One other thing... Body Heat is based on Double Indemnity so excellent observation. I think I'll start referring to this as a cross between Body Heat and The Tenant since more people are probably familiar with Body Heat.
Thanks.
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Post by dmedley on Dec 10, 2010 12:17:40 GMT -5
Hello, Walt. Yes, I was clued to that on page 2 with "Pierre shivers at the thought. Though brother and sister, they relate more like bored husband and wife." Also, keep in mind that it is description that is not needed because it cannot be filmed. Remember, this is simply my personal opinion. But I believe that if you present Pierre and Porche as a "bored husband and wife" or domestic couple via their actions/reactions it would have a more visceral effect upon the reader/viewer when the truth is revealed, and I think it would provide much more bang for the buck, so to speak. Up to the kiss, we've already seen them behave a bit oddly for brother and sister with the naked walk ins and Pierre's jealous behavior, so when they kiss, it's not really that unexpected. It's not that big of an "ah ha" moment. It's an uncomfortable moment, but not really an "ah ha" moment. If, however, they actually are presented as a "couple" with no inclination of them being brother and sister, it would provide a sort of red herring as to why they, especially Pierre since it's his story, are so messed up. He's depressed, jealous, maybe even a bit suicidal because his relationship with his girlfriend is so fubared. She's pressuring him to move out, seeing other guys, etc. Keeping it from the reader/viewer until after they have been firmly established as your "average couple on the rocks" would be a much bigger "ah ha" moment. It would be "holy crap!!!" and "ah ha". In the reader/viewer's mind, it would exemplify just how screwed up he is. They would actually feel how screwed up he is. Imagine if it's revealed that they are brother and sister in the same scene where they kiss. Or something like that. Remember in Chinatown when we thought we knew why Faye Dunaway's character was a little off, but we had no clue as to how messed up that whole thing was. When we were hit in the face with the fact that her daughter was, in fact, also her sister, that was not your run of the mill "ah ha" moment. It brought everything in to focus like a brutal slap to the face. It's drama, man! About the length: I don't think the length is a problem, I just feel that much of the page count was not put to it's best use. By cutting out the redundancies and unfilmables it would free up valuable space in which to further develop and tighten up the dramatic narrative. Again, this is just my opinion. Take care.
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