Lens

[openup]

First of all: I tried to delete the other thread (after doing a backup of all the useful comments), but I couldn't. I don't want to be the guy who fills the boards with empty threads, but if the Moderators consider that it should stay there for any reason (the useful comments, and help, for example), then ok. If not, then I'm really sorry. I would delete it if I could...

Second: Here goes.

Lens:
"The dead body of a celebrity is found, by a paparazzi, whose feelings for her push him toward starting an investigation on his own."

This is the last rewrite I did. I won't say "I did everything you told me", because... Maybe I didn't do it well again, but I've been staring at this draft for days now, changing little details every now and then, up to the point where I get a bad feeling sometimes, like: "I don't think I should've deleted this", and I end up writing it back. IMHO: This is not a good sign.

So... Tear it apart. Your honest opinions are the ones that matter the most.

Thank you all very much in advance. And especially Donna and mscherer, for pointing out VERY IMPORTANT issues with the other draft.

Attachments:

[dwight]

Hey Open. So figured I'd give you a return read, since you read mine. ;D

Well, I powered through it. Got most of it. But I gotta say, a bit tough at times (well most). Like most have been saying before, "too much description". I felt bogged down with every little thing. It read/flowed much slower than a feature.

I felt most of the scenes were overwritten, everything in it's entirety. Every step, ever wink, every look... and most not so needed. The first scene at the Gala event was 10+ pages, should have been 5 pages. A lot of back and forth that seemed to just slow it down. Dialogue with Susie/Wes/Ron, a later Serge/Ethan, seemed almost pointless. Like someone else mentioned "WHY"... there doesn't seem to be clear point for the length/time

And some scenes probably could just be traded for a few lines of dialogue. For example, I felt the whole courtroom/misty flashback, could have just been mentioned in a serge/ethan talk.

And since I mentioned flashbacks, that was the 2nd flag that came up for me... So many flashbacks.. some I didn't feel were really necessary. Bulk of the story was actual back story.. the present may have been quite a bit shorter. So along the them of scene compression and cutting, I feel majority of the flashbacks can be cut even... maybe one idea can be to only have a "flashback" if there's a "photographed" plot point.. and used much more sparingly.

I thought ending was alright, but the split personality twist is pretty cliche nowadays. So you may want to look into that more. If it's done exceptionally well, then audience will forgive the split personality ending.

So here's some ideas of things i'd consider.

-less flashbacks.
-needs more 'who-done-it', idea of maybe having Jeff (first driver) being the first guy she has the affair with, so he's suspect too. This will add to more plot points, more to work with.
-have Ethan be much more smooth/charming/humorous. Have him converse with people at the beginning, he's the hero.. lurking and shooting pictures only isn't a very entertaining personality for the hero. Need something unique and memorable on him, and early.
-An idea of actually having Serge physically present in scenes.. so more like Fight Club. He can actually be 'Ethan at the office', so Ethan cares for Susie, and stalks her good, but Serge in his mind is the guy that publishes the photos, less phone dialogue this way.
-back to Ethan. Maybe a more likable character with more personality, so when you see is 'susie studio' 'stalkeresque side' it's more, WTF for the reader. And maybe an idea of him thinking of himself as her 'guardian angel'.

So there's some ideas.. So you got your work cut out for you, but stick in there. One thing i did about six months ago, was read and actual transcribed (copy) word for word. The script for "Little Miss Sunshine", which is the perfect script for showing how quick descriptions, actions, and dialogue, is done right. So if you haven't looked that over, i recommend it for training and reference purposes.

Thanks for sharing. It also helps me practice my note-making and script doctoring. Welcome to GITS Club!

[openup]

Hey Peter!

And thanks for the read/feedback. Very appreciated! It's great to have writers reading your work, and leave comments one can actually employ.

First, description. I really tried, in comparison to the other draft... Here goes, then. Another look. Maybe you also mean the "directions" I give to the characters (parentheticals in the dialogue, for example)?

A lot of the things you mentioned were there for the backstory, and to show people what kind of person Ethan is (along with Wes, Susie, and Ron - Gala, Misty, Courtroom). These are things without which the story can't function. But, since there are no limits for perfection, I figure that's what this detail needs: even more work. Do you think I should try to implement the backstory differently?

The thought "too many FB sequences" raced through my mind, too, but for the time being, I can't find another way to tell two stories simultaneously (the day Ethan finds Susie's body, and the day before). I am playing with this, still, though, and if I do, I will definitely get rid of the flashbacks.

About the affairs: I don't want Susie to seem like a who*e. She's confused, and in love with a guy who's not who she thinks he is. And at the same time, she has Ron, who supports her, and really loves her. She realizes that only in the end. I hoped that would be visible through the story (?).

And I considered Fight Club, too. But I decided not to have Serge physically present in the scenes, because that would be too Fight Club, too Primal Fear. Plus, Schizophrenia is more about hearing voices, so I thought it would be more medically correct at the same time. Does it really seem like split personality toward the end (because it's Schizophrenia, I wouldn't want people to think differently)? And cliches aside, did you see the ending coming? That's something that interests me a lot, too, since a lot of the things in the screenplay were generated based on the ending.

I agree that Ethan probably needs to be developed more. And especially his feelings and attachment to Susie. Thanks for that remark, I will definitely look into it.

And I see another draft coming. It seems that the whole thing is far from being at least "good enough". So, to work!

But I don't know. Maybe I need to let this screenplay aside for a while. Been going at it for months now, writing/rewriting etc etc. To the point where I believe it's preventing me from seing things clearly in the story... Pity. This was actually the first screenplay I wrote that I... Don't know how to say this... "Believed in"? That would be correct.

Thank you very much, Peter, for your input. Your note-making and script-doctoring practice helps me write better. And it encourages me to keep going at this thing. And if that's not important, then what is?

P.S: Little Miss Sunshine will be definitely read in the days to follow. Been reading other scripts these days. Thank you for the suggestion!

[dwight]

Hey Open,

Hope the writing is going well. Always glad to talk story. In fact I love the collaborative part of screenwriting. Like everyone has good ideas, no wrong, no rights. It just presents new and exciting elements.

I say let it breathe for a bit. It's so different when you go back. For your first full script not too shabby.. mine was horrific. I had a great concept, fun ideas.. but I was too anxious to write, so my structure and characters were not setup and outlined well before hand, but all goes to learning.

For the Flashbacks, Descriptions, and Directions. Anything can be reworked, cut down or extracted. Personally I'm getting much better to compressing scenes. Finding ways to stay in one location and cutting early, in as sense writing something cheaper to produce, and just having a faster way for a reader to get through. So quality before quantity is what I say. I still struggle with it all the time, but with practice I think i'm improving..

[oz]

Hi Open. Have been out for awhile but see you're still having problems with the script. Had an idea for you that I hope helps.

There's a site, www.script-o-rama.com, that has mostly transcripts of dialogue for scripts. Try picking one out for which you have the DVD. Print it out, plug your movie in and write in the action lines as you watch. Minimally. I use to do this and it really helped me get over the description crazies. When you print it out, it prints out in double and triple spaces in most places so there's plenty of room to do this but not so much that you can write every detail.

It will force you to not write, "He turns and smiles" if it's irrelevant or "The pink walls reflect on the mirror" and still you'll see that the impact of the story isn't lost without those little things you're convinced you need. And we're all convinced at the start that we need those things but you don't. It's a process and I think this might help you.

Then take ONLY the notes you took while watching and type the script up in Final Draft or whatever you use for your scripts and I think you'll be amazed how much of the story is still there without everything you think you need but don't. Does that make sense?

And again, we're all learning this with every script we write and we all have to be reminded of the same things over and over and over but I think this will help you learn to edit your thought process and just get to the story. You can do this! Good luck.

[openup]

Hi Donna!

And thanks for taking the time to respond. It's true that I haven't seen you for a while here.

I will definitely check out the link, and the method you told me, since it seems like something I could surely use. It's a great idea, and thanks for mentioning it!

[napolyphonic]

I agree with Peter on this one. I had a hard time getting through the first ten pages. There were a lot of problems. Give it some time. Maybe move on to another project just to disconnect yourself.

It's not bad. I basically gave up on my first screenplay and threw it on a shelf, but I think you could polish this up into something quite good.

-G

[jimmy7]

Well i've read all of this script today and have the following comments:

I didn't struggle with the first ten pages at all. In fact i thought this was a pretty well written piece at that point. I like the writing style and think there is a script in here somewhere.
However, i did get drowned in all the description as the script moved along and got totally lost in all the flashbacks.
My feeling is that this could be restructured slightly so that there are longer scenes in 'present time' and then a couple of more lengthy 'flashbacks' to make it easier to follow.
I also think that at just 90 pages yet packed with description this probably isn't long enough as a feature script. If it was me, i'd try to develop some of the other characters, give a bit more to Ron and Wes for example, their own threads and motivations.
I found the Serge / Ethan thing quite strange although i did get the kind of 'Fight Club' thing you were trying to get over. The whole lost memory thing was also very 'Memento' which means you need to be careful because if it's not as good as something that's gone before it risks immediate despatch to the waste bin by a studio exec who's looking for something either different or better. (A long sentence i know. It also needs restructuring but the England match kicks off shortly!).
Finally, some typos and grammar notes i made as i went along:-

p3 Same age with her - should be 'as' her
p17 He eyeballs the two bags with despite and query - doesn't make sense
p19 bear bottles - beer
p21 The same box with Ethan’s - should be 'as' Ethan's
p51 Wes towers above Ron - shouldn't that be Ron over Wes?
p52 Ron grabs Wes from his jacket - by his jacket? or Ron grabs Wes's jacket perhaps?
p67 trey - should be tray
p78 Will use Internal Memory instead - doesn't sound like very techy language to me!

Use of the / gets quite jarring, ie: INT. SUSIE’S HOUSE/GUEST ROOM -- EVENING

When moving from room to room in a house the use of just a capitalised word also seems quite strange because it's not consistent throughout the script. It feels that it needs more INT or EXT markers.

As stated previously, i think there's a script in there but it needs work. You can certainly write. Because there's a lot of cliche in there - movie stars acting like movie stars, hollywood parties, date rape drug etc etc - i would look at developing some really interesting and different storylines for those other characters.
I hope this helps.

Jim

[openup]

Hey, Jim!

And thanks for the feedback! I'm not as often on the boards lately as I'd like to, so I just saw your message. Surprised that people still read Lens.

I was writing another piece at the time, as well (something I's like to post here, and see what kind of feedback it generates, fingers crossed), but I'm planning on changing "Lens". Try and erase the cliches, just like you pointed out. Although, movie stars will always behave like movie stars... But I understand what you want to say. Would be better to show the real person behind that movie star.

Thanks for the typo/grammar feedback! I'm not American, or British, so I'm trying to do my best with that part... Not doing it well enough, I see...

Thanks again! Your post really did help! (and yeah, "will use internal" should probably be "switching to internal"... heh heh...)