Hello Brooklyn-Feature, 2nd Draft

[violet]

Title: Hello Brooklyn
Genre: Coming of Age/Romantic Drama
Tagline: In New York, everything is bigger: the buildings, the dreams, the possibilities. The failures.
or maybe-
It's time to leave the Empire State of Mind behind and say Hello Brooklyn.

Logline: An NYU girl and a guy from Bed-Stuy get romantically involved, while trying to achieve their own big dreams in one New York summer.

Summary: Maggie, a recent NYU grad, lands a waitressing job that allows her to remain in New York to intern at her dream blog/magazine- but she has to move to Bed-Stuy. After moving into her new apartment, Maggie meets Shawn, a neighbor her age who has given up on his dream of becoming a music producer. Maggie and Shawn hit it off, and she becomes determined to help him achieve his dream, while trying to land a permanent job that will allow her to stay in New York after the summer ends.

This is a second draft- there's a lot of work to be done, but I'm looking for some feedback on how to incorporate Shawn's end of the storyline and integrate it with Maggie's storyline better. Once I get a better sense of that, I'll definitely be re-working the set-up a lot.
;D

Thanks for your time!

Attachments:

[fastfreddie]

Violet,

I logged on to the GITS message board and saw your post. (completed drafts) Downloaded "Hello Brooklyn" thinking 86 pages, quick read, but... I was wrong... it was a tough read.

The main issues:

1. Structure: No Inciting Incident. (What do you consider the inciting incident in this story to be?) No clearly defined ACT breaks. No PLOT POINTS in any ACTS. It seemed very episodic in the storytelling.

2. Scene Structure: Too many scenes that did not move the story forward. Too many scenes that structurally were not set-up properly. (each scene needs a beginning-middle-end) We need to learn something from each scene: about the character, back story, or plot. I will even settle for a set-up to the next scene.

3. Characters: Main characters were developed, but acted inconsistent within their characters. I liked Maggie, but maybe she was sometimes too passive/aggressive. The best stories always include strong protags. she seemed like she was always reacting.

4. Scene Description: TOO much description. If you were to distilled the 86 pages and wrote the scenes with tighter descriptions, the screenplay would be about 70 pages in length.

5. Story: Decent story. My biggest problem with it was not much happened. Too much description and not enough CONFLICT.

6. Tone: Overall tone was good. I visualized N.Y.C. and understood what kind of world I was getting into. In a few instances, a better word could have been chosen.

7. Nit-picky: I don't know if I would consider this a "coming of age" story. Also, there were too many TYPOS. You just spent 2? 3? months working on this screenplay, but you can't take 5 minutes and hit Spellcheck? Also, as a writer, you need to learn how to trust your reader a little more. Don't spoon feed me every little detail.

To follow are some points or examples:

1. Structure: review your outline or however you structure your writing... whatever it is... a three, four, or ten ACT structure... REVIEW IT. In my humble opinion, something seems amiss...

2. Scene Structure: Too many scenes that did not move the story forward: refer to pg. 5... in the dorm room. Kate is leaving... her Mom has breast cancer. Was this thrown in there to show us that Maggie is a good, sympathetic person? or so a job opens up later for Maggie? Refer to pg. 13... Ella Cafe Kitchen. The mix-up between the Chef and Shawn. Do we really need that scene? Refer to pg. 22... Ella Cafe Kitchen. Shawn walks in and nods to the Chef... Do we really need that scene? As a writer, you need to try and visualize each scene as it would play in a full-feature movie. Too many scenes that structurally were not set-up properly. (each scene needs a beginning-middle-end) Refer to pg. 45... Shawn's room. There is no beginning or end to this scene... just a middle.

3. Characters: but acted inconsistent within their characters: refer to pg. 40... Maggie's apartment. Why wouldn't she walk Julie to the station... Maggie knows from earlier that she gets a little freaked out about her safety. Refer to pg. 69... Rooftop scene. I'm having trouble believing Maggie would get in Chris's face and say F%@k YOU. A minor issue: How Shawn speaks. He speaks ghetto when he is in his element, which rings true... but talks polite and proper when he's with Maggie. Too proper. You can take the boy out of the ghetto, but you can't take the ghetto.... I also think you might what to re-visit the last 10-12 pages... A few reactions seemed out of character. I also had a bit of trouble believing that Maggie has a degree from NYU, and was waiting for her big break at that blog/mag and didn't know how to write or format a music review?

4. Scene Description: TOO much description: refer to pg. 5... in the dorm room.

Maggie walks into the room, immediately dumping her bag on her bed and tying her hair up with an elastic band from the top of her dresser.

It needs to be more succinct and still give the reader/audiance a visual idea. How about something like this:

Maggie walks in... dumps her bag... ties back her hair... and pauses... A SNIFFLE? Maggie turns to discover her roommate...

KATE

amongst a pile of shoes. She is crying...... or something to that effect.

Refer to pg. 10... in the dorm room. Maggie's move from her dorm, starts on pg. 10 and ends on pg. 12... TOO much description... just give us an idea what a pain in the ass moving in N.Y. is... trust your reader to figure out the rest. It should be 2 paragraphs at the most.

5. Story: Too much description and not enough CONFLICT. When Chris and his buddy broke in and mistakenly stole Maggie's notebooks... that scene lead to CONFLICT. (maybe a little too late, but conflict none the less) You need more of that. CONFLICT-CONFLICT-CONFLICT

6. Tone: In a few instances, a better word could have been chosen: refer to pg. 15... Bed-Sty Corner Deli.
A gaggle of tall, INTIMIDATING GUYS...

This is a bit nit-picky, but... GAGGLE... a very strange choice. A gaggle, which I am sure you know, is a group of geese... geese are not intimidating. Why not just a GANG? I know it is nit-picky, but it is all about using the RIGHT words and descriptions to set a tone for each scene.

7. Nit-picky: Also, as a writer, you need to learn how to trust your reader a little more. Don't spoon feed me every little detail: refer to pg. 22...

APARTMENT BUILDING HALLWAY - DAY

A fist raps on the door labeled 3C.

I told you this was nit-picky, but it is a good example of things to look out for... it should just be:

A fist RAPS on the door... put 3C in the slugline... it just looks cleaner and more professional.

Refer to pg. 58... Dan's Delight Diner. When Maggie chases down the actor...

MAGGIE

Excuse me.

ACTOR

Was there something wrong with the card?

That seems to me like a weird response... He is a recognizable actor who gets stopped all the time (although in N.Y. ??) why would he think something is wrong with his card?

Also, while we are on the actor... everyone seems to know who this actor is by just the description: that detective from that t.v. show... make someone up, give him a name and stop referring to him as "Actor."


A few other things to consider: Not to crazy about the (V.O.) It seems misplaced... is it just a way to read Maggie's journal? Also, I found it a little strange that everyone in N.Y. hits on Maggie... or maybe just so overtly? (and yes, I have been to N.Y. many times) I also thought it a little strange that Maggie never tells Shawn that her apartment got broken into. I also thought that "nobody cares" speech on pg. 44 is a little cliche. (they care, that's how they make money, but I agree, there are a lot of wannabes) Also, revisit how you end your scenes: too many ending with opened or unanswered questions. Also, you are directing the actors too much--you are a writer, not a director. Also, on pg. 61... Chris is going off on Shawn about Maggie... Why would he go to jail? Did I miss something? I am a forty-something old male living in CA. but... I don't get it. Also, I don't believe Jill would give Maggie a pile of papers to edit, when Maggie has not proven herself at all in her eyes. (a bad review-not getting an interview with the actor...)

Violet,

I know you wanted us to focus on integrating Shawn's storyline, but these are some of my notes I took during the 1st reading. I need to digest this for a bit and will get back to you with (I hope) some constructive ideas to your request.

I think you definitely have something here, but in my opinion, it needs some work.

Derek

[violet]

Thanks so much, your notes are extensive and helpful. I know there are a lot of typos, I apologize for that. I actually haven't (yet) spent 2 months working on this. It's been less than a month since I've started writing the first draft, and only about a week since I started the second.

I probably should have waited and cleaned it up quite a bit more, but what I'm really looking for at this stage is feedback on the story. I'm definitely working out how to increase the conflict- overall and within scenes. I'm trying to work out the character arcs/overall plot first, and then I'm going to start working on the individual scenes more specifically. Do you think I should play up Jill and Chris as antagonists more? Or bring in different/stronger sources of opposition?

What I'm especially interested in is opinions on Shawn's storyline- I feel like not much is going on with him at the moment, and I'm thinking of having him working at a recording studio, in the beginning, getting fired, and then sort of giving up on music and deciding to save up to go to school and become a mechanic or something of the sort.

On Maggie's end, I'm considering having her start out a little more like Julie- a little more uptight, a little more terrified. And I didn't mean to give the impression that she's getting hit on everywhere she goes. The only scene I meant for that was in the deli, with the group of boys who follow her out to her steps. In my experience, getting hit on in the street at night in the summer (when clothes are skimpier) happens quite a bit. Honking and whistling happen, a LOT, New York or not. Or maybe I'm just walking around the wrong neighborhoods? lol

As for the Actor, I'm teetering between writing in a cameo or fictionalizing the character, that's why I keep referring to him vaguely. And he's a sort of B-list/indie actor. Not someone who would draw major attention in New York, just a few double-takes here and there.

I would consider the inciting incident Maggie getting the waitressing job that allows her to stay in New York.

I guess some questions I have are:

What would you like to see more of, and what would you like to see less of?
Any characters you did not like/did not think necessary/ thought were out of place?

Thanks again for taking time to write out such specific feedback! I'm definitely thinking about it as I start planning the next draft.

[fastfreddie]

Violet,

Question: Do you think I should play up Jill and Chris as antagonists more?
Answer: Tough question. I would say "yes" to Chris, but he might become too stereotypical. Too cliche. In regard to Jill, I never thought off her as an antagonist.
In my opinion, painting Jill as a antag. just because Maggie dropped the ball (the music review) doesn't seem right.

Question: Or bring in different/stronger sources of opposition?
Answer: Bring them on. I think the city (gangs.. competition within the blog/mag. world) itself could be a stronger opposition. I will give it more thought.

Shawn's Storyline: He doesn't strike me as someone who would work at a recording studio and not be the producer. (EGO... but to touch on your point, maybe thats why he gets fired?) He also doesn't strike me as someone who would save his money to go to school. The obvious (maybe too obvious) choice is the gangsta life. It has and always will be a great allure, especially for someone who is in his situation. (but also will add some conflict-tough call)

Maggie's Character: I don't know if I would water her down. The question to you is: Are you thinking that because it will be easier to show a character arc? I think we both know the answer to that.

Actor: Noted. Cameos could backfire... Just fictionalize him.

Question: What would you like to see more of?
Answer: Although I think Chris's reaction to Maggie is a bit over the top, the jungle fever aspect was never explored. I think if done properly, there is still more mileage from that storyline. I also think Maggie's and Shawn's relationship could be strengthened. If you are committed to the V.O. (theme?) you need to weave that more into the storyline. The city needs to have a more impact on your characters lives.

Question: What would I like to see less off?
Answer: I need to get back to you about this (that's a good sign)

Question: Characters that I did not like or out of place?
Answer: Julie... too whiny and uptight, but you need her. Chris... as noted above, a little over the top. I also wasn't crazy about his relationship with Shawn. I can't put my finger on it, but it didn't always ring true. Actor... as you noted, but he needs to be fleshed out more.

I don't know if you are even going this way, but... It seems to me you spent so much time describing the streets of Brooklyn and yet it doesn't really figure prominently in your story. (more of a backdrop) You write like you have first hand knowledge of how N.Y. can eat you up and spit you out, but strangely, your characters never really experience it.

Derek

Derek

[jetboy]

Hey Violet,

I think EVERYTHING Derek said is true. His notes are my notes so I'll cut to the chase:

1) Spellcheck. (The irony is I am terrible at this too and probably have a lot of mistakes in this post!)

2) More white on pages. Write fragments. less "ing" ending verbs. Plenty of resources online to help streamlining your style. Please don't use general descriptions and decide who The Actor is and what Detective Show he is on.

3) Need major character development. Major. Everyone is more or less one note-ish to me. We don't explore deeply any single characters POVs or put them in situations where we test them. At most, Shawn kind of gets there when Chris gives him a hard time about Maggie and then he rejects her later. Otherwise, not much in the wake of actively digging into characters. And this goes hand in hand with...

4) We need more conflict. More at stake. I was taking a few notes as I read, and noticed that there wasn't much conflict until page 52. That's write PAGE 52! Sure, Maggie's place gets broken into earlier (although she doesn't seem to care) and she had some trouble getting a job in the very beginning, but NOTHING really happened to ratchet up the stakes or tell me that I should care about "what happens next." So over half the script is really just following people casually as days go by in NYC.

If Maggie's external Goal is to "make it" in NYC, why don't we see her try harder at this? Can you clarify what she wants? And do you know what she needs so that you can get her to arc?

5) Where are the fundamental structure points? Inciting Incident? Plot Point 1? Midpoint? Plot Point ?. I just didn't feel any definition in how this story unfolds. It needs something for me to get what it is about and markers for me to gauge where we are. And I don't believe the Inciting Incident is Maggie getting a job. That doesn't really define the central conflict of the film and we don't need to see it. In fact, I think you can seriously cut the first 10 or so pages. Maybe start with Maggie packing her things and moving. This tells us she is leaving her dorm room and going to a new world to begin an adventure. I think that move with her carting her stuff is a way more telling set of opening images than anything else before it. Way more.

(Like Derek) I also don't feel that we need VO. Although is sounds poetic and I like her voice, it seems very "writerly" and just not necessary.

Other stuff:

Please call the magazine / blog one or the other or neither. Maybe just "Sketcher." And have a casual piece of dialogue explain it.

Does everyone's eyebrows have to raise?

Having 1 scene of Shawn finishing work (Page 23) is not good. There is very little motivation for this kind of thing. If it fit in a montage--and those should not be something you use much--then OK. But each scene should have a purpose. Maybe some conflict, expectations, a turning point, etc.

Out of all the characters, Chris is the most one note. This is OK, but it would be interesting if you gave him motivation OR say, had him be falsely nice to Maggie and then turn on her OR even sabotage his brother's relationship with her.

The page 72 transition from Shawn's work to the apartment doesn't work. Somewhere along the way he and Maggie would be talking. This kind of cut to reveal just doesn't seem plausible; it's not like they don't have 45 minutes from the time they leave the restaurant.

Would Maggie instantly forgive, understand, and trust Shawn over the notebook revelation? Really? It takes one line of dialogue and we're then we're all good?

There is a ton more nit-picky stuff, but I think the truth is you should overhaul the script first and get a tighter draft that delivers more definition for:

A) What is the central conflict / goal of the protagonist

B) What are the functions and deeper sides of these characters

I'm sorry to say that I don't think most of your characters have a real function in this script. They're just there, undeveloped. The more you know story, the more you understand how very archetypal characters ought to be. Scott has some really good information on this on his site. If you can thoroughly audit your script, then you might want to assign more function to your characters.

All that said, I really liked the honesty of your script. I feel like this was taken from your own experience in NYC. I'm guessing you lived there for school and went through something like this so there is a kind of authenticity to this world that I believe. Like Derek, I think you need to bring NYC more into the story and not have it just be background (as written with too much description in the action lines). The more you push your protagonist to "make it" in NYC, the more the setting matters. And the more you show others making or not making it, the more the stakes go up.

So yeah...

-Shawn

[tonym]

I read your whole screenplay. I think it has a strange charm that I can’t quite put my finger on. But it has flaws. I’ll focus my feedback on the two biggest (in my mind): the descriptions and the nice characters.

The surplus of descriptions made the script read like a comic book, with each description being a new panel.

And I think everybody is too damned nice; consequently, there’s barely any drama.

Below is a scene from your script, followed by a quick rewrite to show you what I mean...

* * *

(page 24)

INT. JILL’S OFFICE - DAY

Jill slams down the phone, shaking her head.

Maggie hands her the cup of coffee.

Jill takes a long sip with her eyes shut.

When she opens her eyes, Maggie stands, looking at her, in the center of the small office.

JILL: Yes?

MAGGIE: I just wanted to say thank you for the opportunity to work here. It means a lot to me. I’d love to work for Sketcher, I mean, I’d love to write for it, but once my internship’s over, I’d love to do anything here.

Jill nods.

Maggie looks at her hopefully, smiling.

JILL: Great. Let’s see how your first day goes.

MAGGIE: Right.

Maggie turns and leaves, shutting the door behind her.

Jill shuts her eyes and takes another long sip.

* * *

REWRITE:


INT. JILL’S OFFICE - DAY

Maggie delivers Jill’s coffee to her desk, then stands there grinning like an idiot.

JILL: Did you get lost? The way out is behind you.

MAGGIE: I just wanted to say thank you for this opportun--

JILL: You’re welcome. Is there anything else?

MAGGIE: Um. When my internship is over, I’d love to wor--

JILL: Let’s see how your first day goes before we start making plans. Where’s the spoon for my creamer? Am I supposed to stir this hot beverage with my finger?

MAGGIE: I’m sorry! I’ll go get one right away.

Maggie bolts from the office.


* * *

It’s essentially the same scene, except that the words telling the actor to slam the phone, to sip coffee, to close her eyes, to open her eyes, to smile, to turn before leaving, to shut her eyes again, to sip her coffee again - those words are gone. And Jill is a little meaner. I think the rewrite is a more dramatic read because of those simple changes.

Nearly every scene could be punched-up like this.

Regarding integrating Shawn's storyline into Maggie's better in the latter part of the script, I'm not sure. Maybe the solution requires a different ending? I'm not thrilled with Maggie packing her boxes and leaving, personally. As it now stands, the screenplay leaves me with the feeling that after Maggie gets back to her hometown, she'll wait tables the rest of her life.

Hope that was helpful! Good luck.

[violet]

jetboy thanks. I definitely agree that I have to define/express the central conflict and the goals of the protagonists better. I think part of the problem is that I sort of want them both to be protagonists, and so I need to give them both goals/antagonists/etc.

tonym agreed! they are waaaay too nice. i have that problem a lot. i start liking my characters so much i hate to make them do not-so-nice things- but i will.
as for the ending... what would you like to see happen? I'd like the ending to be hopeful but realistic- which means no happy ending where they make it. at least not at the end of this summer.

Thanks for your time! I'm definitely thinking of ways to structure the story better to bring out the conflicts/needs/goals and externalize them better.

[tonym]

Apr 12, 2010 13:52:41 GMT -5 violet said:

as for the ending... what would you like to see happen? I'd like the ending to be hopeful but realistic- which means no happy ending where they make it. at least not at the end of this summer.

Hmm.

I have ideas for two different endings.


1) The shocking ending:

Chris pushes Maggie off the roof!

Before she dies, Maggie tells Shawn that Chris pushed her.


2) The sudden twist ending:

For most of the screenplay Maggie is fulfilling her dream and Shawn is not. She's a winner, he's a loser.

Then the Actor offers Maggie a job as his baby’s live-in nanny. Maggie immediately quits the internship at Sketcher and accepts the job.

As she packs her boxes to move, she and Shawn get into an argument about her abandoning her dreams. Their friendship is ruined.

Later, Shawn realizes that he was mostly mad at Maggie because he was mad at himself.

Shawn enrolls at NYU.

[jetboy]

I think the definition of "great ending" is always ironic.

For me this means your character's external goal is realized, but they are left with an unfulfilled arc.

OR MOST OFTEN:

The character doesn't get what they want BUT they have grown and complete their arc.

SO:

I think it is fitting that she doesn't get the job at Sketcher but does learn something (not sure what this something is yet) about herself and we get that she has grown up some.

It's just that we are lacking the pain and struggle of her "almost getting" or "getting and losing" the job to make it meaningful.

I would like it if Shawn gets a break producing BUT Maggie loses her opportunity. That kind of irony works in conjunction with the goal vs character arc irony mentioned above.

Whatever it is, it's got to be bittersweet for it to resonate as "real."

I also don't think it is realistic for Shawn to enroll in NYU. That's not a school any High School Graduate can just get into.

I think if you can add a ton of real (not melo) drama and create far greater expectations with more risks that put more at stake, then this will be a lot more meaningful a journey.

AND THEN:

The ending is the real kicker. Get Maggie to arc but give Shawn the external opportunity.

OR NOT...

[tous]

Seeing as you have so much great feedback Vi, i'll wait till the next draft and give you a fresh pair of eyes.

[tonym]

Apr 13, 2010 0:30:35 GMT -5 jetboy said:

I also don't think it is realistic for Shawn to enroll in NYU. That's not a school any High School Graduate can just get into.

Good point.

Maybe Shawn could apply for a job at Def Jam or some other cool record label?

[henchman]

Hi Adriana

I didn’t read the other feedback before writing this so I guess the best thing would be to take from each one what your heart feels is right and discard the rest.

Okay, so even though this story has no real plot to speak of, I actually liked it a lot. Granted, the script does have a lot of technical errors that needs ironing out, like proper formatting of the scene heading, a few spelling and grammatical errors that could be easily sorted out with one or two more passes, but that did not stand in my way of enjoying the story.

What I appreciated is that this is not a melodrama. The drama is quite subtle, as it takes its time to settle in to who Maggie is and what her struggles are.

I’m a sucker for stories like this that feature a down-on-her-luck, female protagonist trying to make it in the big bad city. It tends to make me bond instantly with the character, especially if the character is a sweetie like Maggie who's not your street-smart, know-it-all type, and who, apart from her friend Julie, comes across as somewhat of an introspective loner, which scores major points in my books. (unless, of course, I TOTALLY misinterpreted that!)

I also think there’s still enough room in the script to develop Shawn a bit more beyond just being the nice guy from the hood who wants to become a producer. (I’m glad that since he “doesn’t rhyme” you avoided the trying to become a rapper cliché.)
Maybe it’s just me, but I would like to know more about his outlook on life, on the hood, about the macho posturing that a lot of guys “front” to the world, especially since he’s not the thug-type while his brother Chris seems to be more representative of that. You did touch on this only slightly, but I would’ve liked to know more. Of course, I’m just speaking about what I personally would’ve liked to see, not that you need to include that kind of thing if you don’t want to.

Perhaps I missed it somewhere, but one thing I’m unsure about is why she decided to move to Bed-Stuy. Is that the only place she could afford? (Yes, I know my knowledge about New York sucks, but it's a place I've always dreamed of visiting, hopefully someday??)

What I also liked about the script technically is that you leave a lot of white space in your descriptions with short snappy scenes, which makes it a nice easy read and which I’m sure will also please any potential producers.

I think the make or break for a story like this that’s not plot driven is the quality of the actors playing the leads as they would have to be quite charming and there must be tangible chemistry between Maggie and Shawn.

Okay, now for some more specific issues:

Pg 2 - One of the girl(s)

Pg 4 - V.O. technically should be in line with character name - will also save you one line.

10 - Box(es)?

35-36 - Don’t really know what that fast food boy deal was all about. Can you perhaps explain that? That boy seems a bit dodgy, and way older than what he appears to be.
45 - Unless that bead of sweat is really important, it’s prob better just to remove it. I remember this happening somewhere else too.

63 - I would’ve liked to know at least the name of the show? Asking someone if they know that detective from the tv show seems much too vague. Also, this character is too significant not too have a name.

64 -“SOMETHING HERE”? Was that a note to yourself?

65 - “A man sitting on the desk next to her, John leans over.” We already know who John is.

73 - I didn’t understand Maggie’s dialogue towards the end of the page. It seems disjointed, going from not getting the interview to her stolen notebooks.

75 - I loved this scene and Maggie’s revelation about herself, but I’m not too convinced that she’d so easily kiss him after just finding out that not only did he have her notebooks, but he read them as well. Maybe their kiss should be separated by some reflection on Maggie’s part, or something, just some kind of gap between the two events.

Also, I seemed to have missed the part where Maggie announces that she’s leaving, and Julie finding out about it.


82 - I like that the actor turns out not be a jerk like she though.

84 - I loved Maggie’s voice over here, really resonated with me (personally at least).

Violet/Adriana, ultimately this is your story coming from a very personal place, so I would advise you not to compromise a hell of a lot with what your heart is telling you about what this story should be. Make the necessary technical adjustments, but let your instincts guide before making any difficult choices.