joea
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Post by joea on Mar 25, 2011 16:47:48 GMT -5
;D ;D The trumpets blare. The clouds open. Women everywhere faint, miscarry or become pregnant. The skin of the Earth peels back, the water rushes forward and forms a rainbow illuminating this.... My first, laboriously completed feature, titled... ALMOST CRIMES Okay, then. Just having a bit of fun. I posted a few scenes from this feature in the forum appropriate to that, but I've just finished this latest "tightening of the screws" draft, which included a change in the title (from Beyond Limits) a few character name changes and the like. It's the whole tamale, in other words. One thing first, before I get to the logline. Yes, this is my first feature. But this is not a first draft, or even a second or third draft. This is the product of a little north of two years work, writing and (mostly) rewriting. I've avoided posting it in any of it's other forms because I wanted everyone to read something I felt I had fairly well taken as far as I could on my own before asking anyone to comment on it. I only say that because I know other people's first drafts can be a bummer to read sometimes. So... with that said, here's the hook: When a patient he's treating turns out to be a mafioso's son marked for death, an obsessively moral doctor must go outside the laws and ethics of medicine to nurse him back to health before an assassin can track his family down. 116 pages. As usual, I humbly appreciate any and all feedback. Thank you in advance. Sincerely. Attachments:
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Post by btstacks on Mar 25, 2011 21:39:51 GMT -5
Hey Joe,
Look forward to reading this. I will give you my thoughts when I finish it.
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joea
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Post by joea on Mar 26, 2011 9:48:16 GMT -5
Thanks, Brett! I appreciate it.
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joea
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Posts: 76
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Post by joea on Mar 28, 2011 9:13:52 GMT -5
Boy, the weekends are quiet around here. I would have assumed that's when everyone would come on... but I guess that's when everyone does their writing!
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marc
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Post by marc on Mar 28, 2011 13:48:18 GMT -5
Okay, downloaded it. Can't promise that I'll read it soon and give you feedback. Definitely want to but I'm a little busy at the moment (and I wish it would be with writing -.-)
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LF
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Post by LF on Mar 29, 2011 1:15:38 GMT -5
Nice work man. I only stopped to write when I noticed something that I thought was wrong, but usually things were so good that I wanted to keep reading. Some thoughts as I read below, with some more afterwards. Page 1It’s not clear where everyone is. You mention one Italian, and then refer to multiple Colombians as you introduce one. Then it seems that you go into the Italian’s sedan, but I thought you were describing the multiple Colombians you mentioned a second earlier. So, you seem to be moving between outside the sedans in the Chicago warehouse park and the two sedans. I’m not a fan of Dante’s introduction. He is three contradictory things all at once, in equal measure, in that one moment. He is sick, exhausted and blindingly furious? All while projecting boredom? I’m not even sure how that looks on screen, and it trips me up. The language makes this seem like it’s happening at the same moment. How about… “The boss’ son, his blinding, impotent fury dulled by exhaustion and covered by projected boredom, coughs.” Why is the driver reading a newspaper while a drug deal goes down? Is this that routine? We find out later this is a big deal. Also, we learn all the information about college and Dante’s intelligence soon after anyway. Page 6Try introducing the characters along with the action they’re taking and/or where they are spatially. “BEN, blah blah, driving. Next to him, his wife, EMILY. JACK, 8, plays a video game, while PATTY, 6, keeps pointing at the screen blah.” *** You have some great moments (put the $20 back and we’re not getting into this over a kilo/excited by the destruction) preceded by completely unnecessary moments. So far, I’d cut that conversation with Sal and Ezio significantly, as well as the bit with the wizard and cloak. Find a shorter way to establish his rapport with the kids and his intelligence. *** Page 11We don’t need that crane shot. We know already Let that be a directorial choice. Page 81Do Weingarden/Yates have a mob connection? Their reaction seems more than necessary. Why is the doctor himself going off during work hours? I get that he’s super pissed at him, but it still felt a little overwrought. Page 93Tuman’s dialogue is missing a word: “As long as you’re willing to treat me as ONE who’ll stop at nothing to get what he wants.” Page 105You accidentally typed Ben instead of Dale on the second to last action line of the scene. ThoughtsWell done, man. This is quite polished. And you write very well. Still, I think there’s some work to be done. First, some of your setups are way too obvious. I’m talking specifically of the newspaper bit in the beginning and the wizard/game bit. Find a way to make it more organic. You should take a look at any others and make sure they work in the story; the two I mentioned are the glaring ones. The motel was also fairly obvious because you put in the line about no one being able to find it. You almost nailed that one though; you had the Doc show it for his own purpose, but you had too obvious a setup there. Speaking of the Doc, why didn’t Tuman check the closed medical center? Wouldn’t the doc know of that place? Second, I’m not a fan of the flashbacks. The one with the dad was very, very interesting, and well written, but it sort of kills the momentum of the story. Why would Ben choose to divulge that at that point? I mean, I get why he would, and it makes sense, but why pull over and tear off a sign? Why not have them just pass by the old, shackled place, have both Dante and Ben notice the sign, and Dante asks, “Do you want to talk about it”? Also consider, is it more important to show what has literally happened in the flashback, or rather show the effect of what has happened on the person telling the story. In this case, I think it’s the latter. (Which kills me, and probably you more, because that sequence is very well done.) Ignacio’s flashback was also not necessary, though maybe you’re trying to set it up as a convention in your story so that the other moments you pull out the flashback don’t seem too convenient. The Tuman restaurant flashback is not necessary either. Just move that scene somewhere before the scene with the building manager. We get that this cop isn’t completely legit, and the only real surprise is that the manager is smart and figures it out. Well, the cop being an assassin instead of a dirty cop is also a bit of a surprise. Speaking of the assassin bit, I don’t think Tuman should be dressed in a suit when he attacks the Doc. That feels like generic assassin. Having him play a cop, and having that be his thing makes him a lot more original. Finally, the third act needs a little work, specifically around page 97ish when Dante leaves and Tuman holds the family hostage. You did some great work in the first two acts and the first half of the third that makes it easier to forgive the ending, which felt a little rushed, but fixing that up will make this script even better. I think the way to work that ending might be to build on the conversations that Dante and Ben have had to have Ben secretly tip Dante off about what’s going down. But we don’t know if Dante got that, and when he shows up at the CVS, we can see Ben’s dread. And then clearly describe the action and we’ll be good. Or something. Lastly, like I briefly mentioned, the final shootout was not very clear. I would go back and work on the description so that the reader can clearly visualize what is happening and where everyone is. Okay, so that may be a little incoherent, but I want to post this now rather than put this off a couple more days. In summary, well done, very well written, and it held my interest, especially since this isn’t really my type of story. I think you’re really close, and while it probably sucks to not hear it’s perfect after two+ years of work, I hope you take away how good it is rather than any faults I’ve brought up. Good luck with what’s next L
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joea
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Post by joea on Mar 29, 2011 14:36:01 GMT -5
LF, You're the man (or woman)! Thanks a lot for this. If you lived nearby -- and if I could bake -- I'd be tempted to send you cookies. Then again, that might be weird. Most of your points here I find to be very well taken. It's funny that you mention the original exchange between Sal and Ezio taking too long because once upon a time, the first 10 pages was a scene of just them talking -- basically pure exposition. Typical rookie mistake kind of thing. Thankfully, I eventually cut all of that but I see what you mean about what remains going on a bit too long. The stuff with the newspaper was meant to convey that it was a routine deal and also set up the Casimir Pulaski stuff (as well as Dante not being a typical mobster type). I could certainly focus it more and looking at it I think I know how to do it. Part of reason I had it the way it is was to ease people into the story a little bit. I didn't want to start it with the argument, in other words. But that kind of thing is easily taken too far. The stuff with the wizard and the cloak and all that -- and the two other times it comes up -- was a last minute addition. Literally, the night before I posted this. When I go back and read it I very much agree the first mention of it needs to be shortened. A good way to do it I think would be him not helping, then his son goes "but you're so good at it" and boom, you've conveyed the same information in much less space. The Weingarden/Yates thing: no, they're not meant to have a mob connection, though I see how -- given the way I set up the idea of going the hospital was a no no -- you could have gotten that impression. I'll look at their scenes to see what I can do. I wanted them to be somewhat dickish to make it easier on the audience to sympathize with Ben and to make them more dramatically antagonistic -- but it's important for them not to come off as cartoonish, which even when writing it felt like was a line I was flirting with. As for the motel set up, I'll take another look at that, definitely. It might just be a language thing, but I wanted to park it enough that when Tuman goes and kills Lehman, and then shows up at the motel, people would remember the earlier conversation. I don't want it to be too subtle, but I'm so far inside a story when I'm working on it it's easy for me to see every set up as obvious. Back when I mostly wrote prose I was often accused of being too subtle to the point where things didn't make sense. Overcompensating for that tendency is easy to do. As for Lehman knowing of the medical center -- you're right, that's something that didn't occur to me and a plot hole. I'll fit Ignacio saying the place has been newly acquired in there somewhere, even though I sort of wanted the understanding to be that Lehman only did legitimate work for the Acostas. Given that Lehman ends up not being entirely honest with Ben and in many ways is the cause of his problems, I agree that's an easy assumption to make. As for the flashbacks: The Ignacio one is played over his little speech and was just a way to make the story he's relating more visual. That's all. The Tuman one is trickier. I think it works as a surprise. The audience knows that Tuman isn't legit based on what he says about Ben but I wanted the first fakeout to be, as you say, he's not a dirty cop but an assassin. And then that the manager figures it out. The big, "Dale" flashback is something I'm going to have to think about some more. You bring up some well considered points. I certainly don't want it to completely kill the momentum of the story, but I wanted a big scene right there to explain how and why Ben's doing what he does and what he's learned. I thought long and hard about doing what you're suggesting -- Ben finds a way to warn Dante -- but eventually I decided that he can't and won't do that. At the end of the day, despite the fact that they've bonded somewhat, Ben is ready to sacrifice Dante. He's ready to sacrifice anyone and everyone, including himself, for his family. That's (hopefully) what makes the scene dramatic. He knows warning Dante would be putting his family at risk, so he won't do it -- same as his father warning the cop at the door or trying to alert the police about the body while he's driving the tow truck would have put his father's family at risk. I wanted that parallel. The scene also functions as a way for Dante to emotionally figure out what's Ben's willing and prepared to do. Without some big scene which displays the moral forces and choices that went into shaping Ben, I couldn't see how anyone would buy that Dante would figure out that Ben was going to betray him (and also give him a reason to forgive Ben). I took some my inspiration for this flashback from the movie Lone Star, which I recommend to everyone, in which the son of a great sheriff who never really liked his father much learns the truth behind some of the events that shaped his life and his father's reputation. That theme -- how the past continuously shapes the present as we look at what's happened through our constantly evolving sensibilities -- was something I wanted to explore. But perhaps that particular scene this is a case of me being too subtle about the emotions at play. Like I said, I have that tendency. But that's what I was shooting for. Or maybe I'm being stubborn because I like the flashback. ;D I agree the final confrontation needs to be fleshed out. I went on a trimming craze trying to wean the thing down from 122 pages and probably took things a bit too far right at the end. The plan was to use the extra space to add two extra short scenes featuring a low life hitman who finds the medical center but I think a smarter plan would be to allow the end the space to flow better. There's a distinct shift in the rhythm of the story that I was curious to see was noticeable to anyone but me. So once again, LF, thank you very much, very sincerely. It does not bum me out at all that this story is not perfect, no matter how long I've been working at it. This is my first script and I wrote it to teach myself how to do this. Rather than discard it after the second draft I made a conscious decision to put myself through a book and online screenplay writing school... watching, reading and learning... and then compared what I was supposed to do against what I had actually done. Then I started over, this time making an outline and proceeding from that first, frightening blank page. Your kind words and thoughts are invaluable to me and your compliments much appreciated. One question: did you read it all in one sitting? I sort of got that impression but I wasn't sure. Anyhow, I hope to be able to return the favor sometime soon. Is there anything in particular you're looking for feedback on? Your Web site is very intriguing and I look forward to perusing it over the next few days. Some people knock Web series' but I find a lot of them really fun, interesting and of surprisingly high conception and production value. It's where the future filmmakers of the world are. Where Spielberg made movies on Super 8, today's future Spielbergs have Web series'. I believe that fully. A friend of mine acts in a funny one in Chicago called FUCKED IN SPACE, which reminds me a good bit of the old British show Red Dwarf. Anyhow, that's all. Thanks again, my man (or woman!). Joe
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LF
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Post by LF on Mar 31, 2011 0:32:23 GMT -5
The motel setup is very close to perfect. Take a little more time to clarify the Doc's purpose in showing that to Ben and you'll be good. Also, tune that line "no one could find anyone here," or even cut it. It's not a magical enclave haha, but if you make it less absolute, we (and Ben) can have more fear about the safety of Ben's family. I disagree about the Ignacio flashback. What you're showing is not important to cut away there. If you're worried about that bit taking too long, shorten it If you want us to be surprised he's an assassin, just let him kill the old man. That creates more mystery about him and we can guess at and have uncertainty about Tuman. As we see the other actions Tuman takes, the more we build a complete picture of who Tuman is. Just a dirty cop wouldn't necessarily snap a dude's neck and he certainly wouldn't fly to Florida. As for the Dale flashback, yeah man, that one hurts because it's so good. But the whole point of that story is that Ben doesn't know exactly how it happened and didn't even believe it till now. What's important isn't what happens in the flashback, it's what happens immediately after as Ben recounts his and everyone else's reaction to his Dad's story. I probably overstated when I said it kills the momentum of the story, since it's so well written, but it does distract from what his Dad's story means to Ben at that time. The flashback makes it about Dale, as opposed to if you had Ben just telling the story, which makes it about Ben. If you've ever seen Persona by Ingmar Bergman, there's a point where one of the women recounts in great detail some sexual experience. All the men in the audience (and all of Hollywood) would probably love a flashback (as a dude, I wouldn't mind myself haha), but Bergman's mastery and control shows with choice to keep the camera on the woman in the present. It's more important to show the effect of the story on the teller than to show the story itself. I think it's a similar case here. Don't worry, you're still adhering to "show, don't tell," but you would be choosing what is important to show. Think about it (Also, this is a great point to mark Dante noticing Ben's emotions.) Finally, you're definitely right that Ben should make the choice to save his family fully. Without the flashback, I think that choice will ring even stronger. As for your last question, I read it in one day, though I took a break at some point for dinner or something. I'd also be curious as to how it reads as a shorter script without the flashbacks. Anyway, you're very close! Keep going! Good luck L Oh, and I don't have anything at a stage where it can be read. But do let me know what you think of the web series
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joea
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Post by joea on Apr 3, 2011 1:09:04 GMT -5
LF,
I've been working on some of these suggestions of yours and I'm happy to report that on the whole I'm liking these scenes better.
So a big thanks. You read. You responded. You helped my script! What more can a guy ask for?
The end, though, I'm still not sure about whacking down that flashback and making it a monologue.
Part of the reason is: what you're suggesting was indeed my original intention for the scene, believe it or not. But when I started writing it I decided that 1) I didn't want the scene to skimp on the details. In other words, it's my main character's key scene -- I've been building up the mystery of his relationship with his father since his first scene -- and it's just worth more than a two page monologue. 2) I didn't want to write a four or five or six page monologue. I just didn't. Mostly out of fright, but partly out of just the good sense that unless you've got a genius writer out there on the tightrope, most of the time those long film monologues aren't interesting. I faced the same problem with Dante's long hospital room monologue, which I got around by playing it mostly as voiceover opposite Tuman's murder of Lehman. But this scene can't have those kinds of tricks. It's got to be full on one way or the other.
Now, maybe I'll have to bite the bullet and do it. I'd just... like to get some corroborating opinions before I dive into the cold, cold ocean of trying to write that big of a monologue. I suppose I could try sort of half and halving it. Mostly Ben talking, leading Dante around and we sort of flashback to Dale for a few seconds at the different locations as he's talking. That was a concept I considered also (the scene still begins that way). But I thought it would just be clunky and the flashback was going well enough I decided to go with that.
Like I said, it's a fear thing. Though I've seen it done plenty of times. A big part of the story is Ben making peace with his father's memory. That's the purpose of all that Polish stuff. I figured the more real I made Dale, the more forceful that reconciliation would be.
I may just be trying to talk myself out of doing something I don't want to do even though I know I need to do it. At minimum, you've given me a lot to think about.
And no, I haven't seen Persona. I tried several years ago to watch it but got very turned off by what I felt was a very self conscious pretension of random art school mish mash. I turned it off after a little under half an hour. I've seen The Seventh Seal and enjoyed that, though I found that also somewhat self consciously philosophical... more like a conversation with Bergman than a story at times. I'm willing to believe it could just be that I lack the requisite Bergman film grammar. I know it took me a while to get used to the pace and style to silent comedies, but I now I love them. I went through the same thing with Kubrick's Barry Lyndon. It took three or four complete viewings before I just decided to surrender to it, and it was only then that I learned to enjoy it.
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LF
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Post by LF on Apr 3, 2011 1:22:02 GMT -5
haha I completely understand. Try writing the monologue and see how it turns out. You've gotten us invested in two characters, Ben and Dante (not Dale), and we'll probably like a scene that lets us get to know them more. If you clearly mark each emotion and thought that Ben and Dante feel/think, it'll be a hell of a scene. If it doesn't go well, you can always trash it Anyway, good luck with it! Great work so far! L
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Post by btstacks on Apr 5, 2011 18:49:12 GMT -5
Hey Joe, Sorry for taking so long. a long list of projects in the works. But I did finally read it and I enjoyed it. It looks like you received a lot of great feedback (nice job LF) and have started making some changes. I concur with a lot of LF's comments (which makes this easier). The story is intriguing and I think can shape up into a very nice, marketable script. Outside of a few typos (ex.) pg. 66, you have "Marie" instead of Janie. Again please remember I read this in one sitting so I could be totally off on this stuff, but If I could offer just a few suggestions: 1. I was also a little confused on the character development of Dante, but after reading the scene, I think he needs just a bit more penchant for violence. *Maybe in the opening scene, one of the Columbians get angry at his comment and attempts to raise his gun, but Dante coolly, but quickly, beats him to it and points a gun to his head. Dante - Don't even try it, Culero! (Asshole) then he laughs and steps away. This would show a little bravado and a distaste for the situation he is in. He doesn't like the whole drug trading business. His father hears what he did and is angry for pissing them off (even though the Russians killed them all) 2. The $20 bill: Emily (To Ben) should say "money on the ground, maybe it's a good sign!" Ben rolls his eyes, "Jack, put it back!" Jack - "But Dad, Mom said......" This will show that Emily has a positive attitude about the move (It ties into her later positive comment about the cable TV), Ben doesn't share the same enthusiasm and he gets to still make his point to Jack. 3. I would create a little more motivation examples for his father going into drug dealing. Maybe they had family interests in Las Vegas before it went all corporate or their other ventures were drying up because of certain politicians cleaning up the corruption in Chicago (Which will never happen 4. This was a BIG one that stood out to me: Pg. 38 How did Ben know where the medical facility was. He was directed to go there, but was never told how to get there. (unless I missed it) 5. I think Ben needs just a little more motivation to help Dante. (Maybe some dialogue between he and Emily about a past event he screwed up with and someone died, and it's why he must do this.) Something to that effect when he is explaining to her what is happening. I still think there would be a stronger urge to go to the police for protection, unless there is something in himself that he needs to rectify by doing this unselfish act. These are just some things I thought about while reading. I am excited for you as it seems like you have a very thought-out script and I will be happy to read any changes that you consider making. Brett
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joea
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Post by joea on Apr 6, 2011 12:00:16 GMT -5
Thanks, Brett. I really appreciate it.
I think you make some good comments here and your suggestions are well taken.
1. I like this suggestion. I'm worried about that opening sequence getting too long, but this is an interesting way to build character and I try not to miss those. I don't want to emphasize that Dante is violent, though, because I don't think of him that way. He's an ethical and intelligent guy who was brought up in an environment he basically disagrees with and who's disgusted with himself for going along. The way I would emphasize that is having him pull out that gun... and then pulling the trigger. Only there's no bullets in it, so it goes CLICK. Then he laughs and gets back in the car. I tried fitting that in last night and I liked it the way it read. My only concern, as I said, is that opening sequence getting long.
2. I like Emily saying that finding the money is good luck, but I think the way you have it would start an argument I'd rather they avoid. If he and his wife are fighting, it makes him less likely to want to stay with Dante and tend to his marriage, whatever the cost. At least, that's the way I've been thinking about it. I could be wrong. I'll take another look at these scene and see what I think about it.
3. I don't want to give Dante's father a legitimate reason for wanting to deal drugs. Dante's moral objections depend on his father's reasons being basically indefensible. But I tried giving him an implied gambling problem in my work last night and I thought it worked well.
4. Dialogue to the effect of, "you remember how to get there, right?" -- or Ignacio writing down directions -- existed in earlier versions of the script, but I figured people would just make the leap that in that CUT Ben had been told. It's an easy thing to put back in and I will.
5. Yeah, this was the biggest struggle I had, giving him an ironclad reason to stay. It's why I tried so hard to make the outside world scary. That whole The Firm-esque, "if we run, they find us, and it gets someone else killed." The hospitals aren't safe and the only guy in a police uniform before the final confrontation is an assassin! My only trouble with your suggestion is that all of my "haunted subtext" time with Ben is spent building up his relationship with his father. I don't want to make him haunted by two things at once if I can help it. But it's important issue I'll take a look at, because unless the audience buys his reasons, the story doesn't work.
One question: what do you think of LF's suggestion to get rid of the final "Dale" flashback and make it an extended monologue instead?
Anyhow, thanks again for reading, my man. You've given me some important things to think about here.
Joe
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Post by btstacks on Apr 6, 2011 14:19:34 GMT -5
I agree with changing the Dale flashback, but I wouldn't eliminate the flashback entirely. I would do it as a flashback narrative with Ben as they are driving. I would set up earlier that he just can't bring himself to stop there, that the memories are too painful.
I would also include some accusatory dialogue, something like, "what is it with you guys dragging innocent people into your little wars!" Something to provide a little guilt on them.
I think it would add a little to the scene.
Hope it helps.
Brett
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joea
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Post by joea on Apr 18, 2011 1:54:54 GMT -5
Just in case anyone's interested, I recently employed Amanda the Aspiring Writer to take a look at my script and give notes. Her Web site can be found here: aspiringtvwriter.blogspot.com/She was pretty thorough (six pages, single spaced notes, often with specific page notations) and had a lot of common sense suggestions, a few insightful ones, and (of course) her fair share of stuff I disagreed with. She left it open for me to respond -- which, after taking a few days to process and reflect -- I've just done. If LF or bstacks would like to take a look at them to see the kind of feedback she gives, I'd be more than happy to send along what she sent me. In that same vein, I'd also be happy to send it to anyone else who reads Almost Crimes and comments in this thread (the notes wouldn't make much sense otherwise). I'm attaching the exact version of the script I sent her (slightly revised after comments in this thread) below. I'd download that one instead of the one at the top of this thread. Attachments:
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Post by btstacks on Apr 18, 2011 14:48:53 GMT -5
Send it on over and I'll be happy to take a look.
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